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Keenava Ootunavi

Ysalamiri/Pariahs - Good?/Bad?/Exploited?

What do you think of Ysalamiri as a whole?  

15 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think of Ysalamiri as a whole?

    • Necessary - you think that the Ysalamiri serve a valuable purpose and should be consistent.
      6
    • Unnecessary - you think NFU's have enough of an advantage on FU's if they put their mind on it.
      0
    • Necessary/Exploited - you think they are necessary, but you also think that people exploit them way too much.
      4
    • Unnecessary/Exploited - you not only think we don't need them, but you think that people abuse the right to get them/have them.
      1
    • You don't think we even need to be talking about this.
      3
    • Other (Please post your thoughts :D)
      1


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What do you think?

 

I wanted to make a new thread for this to avoid blowing up the other one, because LAP made a valid point. I think this deserves a little bit of discussion.

 

Yes, the Ysalamiri are canon and yes they serve a good purpose to NFU's, but with Cortosis/Phrik/Sonic Weapons/Stun Bolts and the clear or deceptive advantage of any and all terrain you might encounter, why are people using them like candy?

 

It is hard for me to drum up specific examples from the final battle and I haven't been as prolific as I'd like to be in the threads of the RP, but I used to see these little creatures pop up like no one's business countering god knows what in the form of any type of force attack and rarely any posts in Myrkyr. It became a competition as to who could overcome how much and I was really sick of it.

 

The only people (aliases: Idejjen and Serena Irana (Slicer can remember our battle with them)) I ever had to get Ysalamiri, I tried to go to Myrkyr and didn't even know what I was supposed to do there.

 

There is no real opposition against players who go there unless they do it themselves and how is it a true struggle when it is their own writing.

 

and what about the people who don't even go there and say they go there, is what they are doing an exploit of the system? Do you think other people should have to go and try their best to get them when characters who either don't care or don't know like I did back in the day do very little to get them?

 

I am kind of curious as to people's thoughts on this.

 

EDIT:

 

I tacked on Pariahs because it seemed to be on everyone's mind and they seem to be a bit more active in people's questioning than Ysalamiri.

 

Just pretend the options count for Pariahs as well and post your opinions on either or both if you feel like it in the thread. Please

Edited by Guest

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I've only ever encountered them during my long career RP three times. Once during a duel in which I killed it to allow Kirlocca to feel the Force again. I'm not sure it really helps all that much for a NFU. Keeping your distance from one isn't hard to do, and even as a FU, while keeping your distance, you can still deflect any fire that comes your way. It only creates a bubble. But then again, I've never had a NFU go against a FU, so I wouldn't fully know the effects it can have.

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I personally think its stupid to even question it. I can think of only a handful of places in the RP that even use them, and most of them are neutral sites that are often third party and places of peace (Last Call and The Link Resort come to mind immediately)

 

We've had them in this RP for longer than I've been around, and I dont think they've ever been questioned until now in the wake of all of these bruised egos. If anything, it was worse when I started, where there was no standard for how many you could get, Now at least its regulated on a weekly basis and you have to actually go to Myrkyr to get them.

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Really? It's regulated on a weekly basis?

 

Where are the notices for this? (genuinely curious)

 

I understand it may have been worse back then, but any exploitation is still bad. However, if someone could be like a designated Vornskyr and attack everyone who came there it would be kind of cool.

 

Either make a vornskyr account that the mods could control or make someone a vornskyr that the mods could trust. Then if they go to Myrkyr someone else could be a vornskyr for them. That way it seems more of a challenge to get one instead of just standing on a planet for who knows how long with the only struggle coming from your own creation. Even if people have some really inventive minds, which I know people do.

 

EDIT: The last official post by anyone on Myrkyr who was looking for Ysalamiri was Feb 23 2011 with the one following behind it being from 09, a year before the final battle, which either means people already had them, people didn't want them, or people were using them illegally.

 

Also, I am curious wouldn't Last Call need new Ysalamiri after a while? Don't the creatures have lifespans and wouldn't their nutrients need to be recycled?

 

I guess I am thinking about it way too mcuh, but something about their implementation just bothers me.

 

WJ is right though, all they do is make a bubble. Slicer darted all around the bubble that Serena made back int he day.

 

EDIT 2:

 

Well, I feel sheepish. Sheog just pointed me to the rulebook and informed me that there are limitations, limitations that were updated like a couple of weeks ago so therefore are pretty fresh.

 

I still haven't seen any mod vornskyrs but as the only recent post was the twenty third I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll get to it when they can.

 

I am also still curious as to people's thoughts though, even if exploitation isn't really that much on the table any more due to the already established limitations.

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I see little actual abuse of these, so I see little reason to cause a stink. They serve a purpose, but until people abuse them, I don't see any problems.

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Ysalamiri are a good mechanic to have especially in a setting like this. They provide a decent defense for NFUs, especially ones who want to sneak attack a Jedi. I find it amusing people were complaining about over the top RPing, yet suggest using ysalamiri provides an unfair advantage against these very same super beings. Personally, I find it a nice balancing mechanism that keeps combat interesting and forces you, FU or NFU, to vary your training and abilities to have a more rounded character than is capable of taking on these challenges. Not to mention, most people don't realize how bulky a nutrient frame is, unless you got creative like some people, and merely store it in a false limb that acts the same way.

 

 

What I really find unbalancing is Pariahs. Some characters I've seen have their own personal null bubble of about 100 feet radius or so (one of Fusion's alts). Of course, if a FU trains for combat in a null force environment, it helps to counterbalance the situation, not to mention using weapons other than the traditional lightsaber. Still, that large of a bubble has always been, to me, overkill by far.

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I believe they were created by the Chaos Gods or something like that. They're a black hole in the force, in all terms of the word. An example would be Bad Karma's Duo. He's a Pariah I believe. As for the Ysalamiri, I've seldom seen them used in combat, due to the nutrient frame, but I am interested in seeing their further use.

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I've never heard of them in canon, but here they're characters who naturally act like Ysalamiri apparently, exuding an area around themselves where Force skills simply don't work. Anomalies in the Force. Fusion has a Pariah who kills Force Users by shooting them with a overpowered pistol. It usually punches through armor, and without the Force, there's no hope for a FU to dodge or block or redirect said bullet.

 

 

Edit: Furion**...dammit phone spellcheck...

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Heh, pariahs were a big thing when Chad was still around and now that he's not in the RP anymore they kind of fell off the face of the galaxy. Well... Except for Black, who pops in now and again.

 

I don't know if I can speak about them a great deal, but they are basically a person who exudes a null force bubble of their own except I believe this one is also a bubble that is malignant to even regular NFU's. I don't remember exactly.

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While I know Blademasters were done away with in the Brick Top Inquisition, I am not sure how much of Dagon's other things joined that similar purge. If my memory serves me, I thought the Chaos Gods had been nulled in general even before the Inquisition.

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If this is the case, can I get a solid yes or no straight from the Mods regarding their status? Are they something that's still in the RP or not? Personally, though I think they're overkill (specifically FU killers), I think having them adds that danger most FUs need to experience once in a while.

 

FUs should be strong against NFUs, who should be strong against Pariahs, who are obvious FU killers. Keeps the balance.

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Of course, if a FU trains for combat in a null force environment, it helps to counterbalance the situation, not to mention using weapons other than the traditional lightsaber.

 

Yeah Augury and all the work it did with me!

 

And I don't think the chaos gods are active in RP, unless a storyline needs one to be active.

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Pariahs are definitely unbalanced, but ysalamiri are not. The thing with pariahs is that Chad invented them--they don't exist in canon. Basically, they were people that had certain ysalamiri traits in that they extended a similar bubble in which the Force did not exist. It made them ridiculously good against Jedi (as I found out with Onderin when he was captured by a group of pariah NPCs). Interestingly, there were actually a few PC pariahs--I believe ex-Emperor Black is one, and I think there were at least a couple more.

 

Anyway, I don't see them really being an issue in the future. Ysalamiri, on the other hand, are great. Fett's started to carry around one, but so far he's my only character that does. He harvested them from Myrkr according to the official rules, and he keeps them in various places so that I don't lose my whole batch if, say, my ship gets destroyed. I resolved to start carrying the buggers when I realized how powerless an NFU is otherwise against an FU.

 

I mean, seriously. What can an NFU do against a Force push? What keeps a Sith from slamming him repeatedly into the ceiling? Stun bolts, sonic weapons... these are all preemptive, and wouldn't reasonably work in a duel format or any battle that lasts longer than one killshot post.

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You guys really need to be afraid of getting in a duel with Ares right now, because now that I have a Sith I am not forced to hold to morals in my duels. Ian brings up a good point, what's to stop me from telekinetically grabbing at your brain and squeezing hard?

 

 

That's actually something I use as a defense against other Force Users when I was a Jedi, a small telekinetic whipcrack to the brain causes them to lose their concentration and hold on whatever technique they were focusing on using against me. Momentarily disorients them as well.

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I watched Malin do that to some one once I think.

 

Anyway you would need fine manipulation skills to pull of such a trick. I've had Slicer practicing on tubes the size of veins and arteries and then on arteries since like 2005 just to be able to do something he normally doesn't do. This is force a blood clot or stroke in a person. Even then at his mastered level he needs ten solid seconds to do it.

 

I always figured things in the body were more or less off limits. Mainly because they broke things like game play.

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I've always been under the impression that rattling the internals of the body is bad form. I remember talking about rattling brains and just extracting bones back in 2002. It's the most logical way to attack someone as a Force user. Just detonate the heart and be done with it. I just know it'd be a lame game if it's all FU body manipulations and NFU stun guns. Lame game indeed.

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The skull of most humanoids is more than large enough to summon a small Force blast in the vicinity of it to where you would not need to be terribly accurate. Not to mention, in line with the same train of reasoning, there's nothing to say that i'm specifically defining the brain and just the brain and exactly the brain when I telekinetically grab it. What's to stop me from encasing you in a Force barrier to stop you from moving so much so it makes it easier to grab at? Any part of the brain usually means catastrophic failure of major internal organs, so no matter where I squeeze you're going down, at the very least with traumatic injury to the point it'd be easy to just walk over and decapitate you with my lightsaber.

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I've always been under the impression that rattling the internals of the body is bad form. I remember talking about rattling brains and just extracting bones back in 2002. It's the most logical way to attack someone as a Force user. Just detonate the heart and be done with it. I just know it'd be a lame game if it's all FU body manipulations and NFU stun guns. Lame game indeed.

 

And yet it's good form to do some of the other stuff you do? =P

 

 

I get what you're saying, it's not fun and creative, neither does it give the other party much of a chance of retaliation. But I'm a master of the Force, and a damn well trained and damn powerful one at that. I've put so much into my character that I shouldn't have to RP any less than what I am if I don't choose to be, especially as a Sith, who are known to be insane to fight on these levels. If I want to win, I will use every advantage in my arsenal.

 

 

Edit: my bad on the double post...got a little carried away reading and didn't realize I still had last post.

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And yet it's good form to do some of the other stuff you do? =P

 

Actually, awesome! I love it when people bring that up, because it's inaccurate, so I can point out that almost everything I do, that's over the top, is done with NPCs. Even recently, when I requested a kill shot, I did so by waving a gun and lightsaber in someone's face, not by just throwing a building at them and asking for a kill. So, while the stuff I do is often over the top, I don't kill PCs and request improbable kill shots based on over the top Force maneuvers. So, no, it's not the same bad form. (It might be another type of bad form though. )

 

If I used the Force to rattle someone's brain, I think it'd be bad form.

 

 

I get what you're saying, it's not fun and creative, neither does it give the other party much of a chance of retaliation. But I'm a master of the Force, and a damn well trained and damn powerful one at that. I've put so much into my character that I shouldn't have to RP any less than what I am if I don't choose to be, especially as a Sith, who are known to be insane to fight on these levels. If I want to win, I will use every advantage in my arsenal.

 

Be careful. That last paragraph sounds like a parodied misconception of my character. People probably think I'd rattle someone's brain, but I wouldn't. You know, since I recognize that it's bad form. Again, I wouldn't want to see this game turn into a contest of brain rattling and stun bolts.

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Wasn't Ian just talking about how you handed him pretty badly back in the day?

 

 

And no, I'm not trying to parody you. I'm serious. It might be bad form, but it's a viable method of assault, and if suits my purposes, I'm going to use it. Of ccourse I'm much more likely to use that kind of overpowered attack against someone who has little to no chance of winning against me in direct combat, yet I'm not against using attacks similar to it to counter or defend myself. I'm here to have fun, yes, but part of that fun comes from not losing. I don't find losing fun most of the time, unless I'm dueling someone who is an amazing writer like Ason or Furion.

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